Lewis Howes was a college football player in the USA, who had his career cut short due to a broken wrist injury sustained in a game.
Lewis left the world of football with no income, no knowledge of how to make money or any job prospects. His sister provided a couch for him to sleep on, which he leveraged well by using the spare time to learn about how people were making money on the internet.
Lewis became very active on LinkedIn and turned himself into one of the most well networked sporting personalities on the site. He leveraged his connections to start hosting LinkedIn meetup events in the real world, which gave him an income stream, albeit a very time consuming one.
When Joel Comm invited Lewis to come talk about LinkedIn marketing on a webinar, the doors opened to a new income opportunity. Although a beginner to teaching online, Lewis loved the format and went on to become a full time LinkedIn marketing trainer, selling his teaching programs via webinars.
Lewis co-founded an online teaching company that made several million dollars over a period of three years. He conducted over 700 webinars during this time, and then decided he had enough of teaching LinkedIn and similar subjects.
He took a break, then just recently came back with a bang, starting a brand new business called the School of Greatness, which began with a podcast, and has now grown into a coaching program. As you will hear during this interview, the school is more like a movement that Lewis is proud to lead, than just a training course.
Inspiration And The Practical All Wrapped Into One Interview
This interview begins with Lewis explaining what he is up to today and some of the key highlights behind the principles he runs his life on (including how he learned to play the guitar and salsa dancing using immersion). We then recap his career in the usual Entrepreneurs Journey Podcast style.
During the second half of the interview, things get very practical. Lewis explains exactly how he makes money and teaches other people to make money online, primarily using Webinars as the main marketing tool. He breaks down what tools he uses to build his email list, take payments, run his membership site and conduct his webinars.
Here are some of the other things we talked about…
- How Lewis learned to play the guitar, salsa dancing and how he become a professional handball player.
- Lewis offers two examples of members in his program and how they have gone on to quickly earn thousands of dollars online.
- We also hear the different income streams Lewis currently personally has, including advising startups, a podcast, his coaching program and other various sources.
Websites Mentioned During The Interview
Where to Find Lewis Online
Hello, this is Yaro Starak and welcome to the Entrepreneurs’ Journey podcast. Today’s guest is Lewis Howes, ex-professional footballer turned to millionaire internet marketer and leader of the School of Greatness. Let the journey begin.
Hello, my name is Yaro, full time blogger, podcaster and living the laptop lifestyle. Thank you for downloading this episode of the Entrepreneurs Journey podcast where you’re going to hear another inspiring story from a successful online entrepreneur.
Today’s story is from Lewis Howes who has a very interesting background. He came from a history of professional sports as a footballer then, an injury, a broken wrist stopped his career which led him to basically sitting on a couch for two years trying to figure out what to do next, how to build his life back up. He discovers Internet Marketing primarily through LinkedIn.
LinkedIn was his main platform to begin with which he slowly built himself up to become an expert at that led to doing live events and then, he did a webinar and sold a teaching product on LinkedIn which then spiraled over the next three years into a multi-million dollar Internet Marketing teaching business.
Then, he decided to basically stop. He had great success but, he was feeling a little bit burnt out about that subject and started what he calls, “The School of Greatness.” He also switched sports and became a professional handball player.
There’s a lot of both tactical and inspiring story-telling in this interview so, I think no matter what background you’re coming from and no matter what reason you listen to my podcast, there’s something in this episode for you. If nothing else, you will definitely feel inspired after listening to what Lewis has gone through over previous years.
Before I press “play” on the interview, I’d like to invite you as always to join my EJ Insider Club. This is my interviews club so, if you like interviews, you like this, and want more on a regular basis with million dollar bloggers and information marketers and email marketers then, the EJ Insider Club is for you. You’ll get two brand new interviews every month at least from me as well as an action plan to go along with those two interviews where I extract the leverage points from each person I interview and tell you how you can apply the same leverage that allows them to get the million dollar results.
To find out more about the EJ Insider Club, go to EJinsider.com/interviews. You can sign up there and also listen to some samples from all the interviews that I have available in the program.
Okay, that’s my promo for this episode. Let’s begin the interview. Here we go.
YARO: Hello, this is Yaro Starak. Welcome to the Entrepreneurs-Journey podcast. Today, I have a long-time Internet friend named Lewis Howse on the line with me.
Hello Lewis! Thank you for joining.
LEWIS: What is up my man!
YARO: Lewis and I have known each other in the virtual world for many years. Although I have never met the guy in person, I do feel like I know you extremely well Lewis because your photographs are plastered, this big time man, larger than life, football player, handball guy, School of Greatness. You got a little bit of Tony Robbins mixed in with a little bit of a sporting hero going on plus you’re doing the whole Internet Marketing and coaching and podcasting and everything.
So, there’s a lot to talk about. I think one of your biggest claims to fame is obviously the college football background story as well. That’s sort of your hero’s journey kind of thing and the rise from the ashes story which I’d love to cover for our listeners.
But, in terms of business, we were just talking, I was trying to clarify exactly how you make a living on the Internet nowadays which isn’t as clear as what it used to be because when I first met Lewis, he was working with a guy named Sean. You guys were doing a whole bunch of webinars in kind of everything.
You were known as a LinkedIn specialist. Sean was known as the Twitter specialist and then, you were going to, like Amy Porterfield, and doing Facebook with her and presenting that. Then, you were doing another one with someone else on another subject. I know we did an interview many, many years ago as well about blogging.
But, that’s not your main thing anymore. You sold that business. So, how do you make a living nowadays? So, we know why we should listen to you in terms of Internet Marketing, Lewis.
LEWIS: [Laughs] Well, I’ve got multiple streams of income and we briefly chatted about it. But, my main focus right now is building this brand School of Greatness and the podcast which has, it’s now at 50 episodes and over a million downloads and I’ve just hit the one year mark. I’m pretty proud of where it’s come from there.
I decided when I launched that, I really wanted to broaden my topic so, I used to be doing LinkedIn and Social Media training and kind of just online marketing in general and I wanted to broaden my reach and not just focus on social media.
So, the School of Greatness was born from that. And then, I’ve realized that so many entrepreneurs were listening and they were like, “We want more. We want more advanced training. We want access to you and the people that you interview.”
So, I created the academy which was an online community with a mastermind for entrepreneurs, the top resources every month and then, my opinion, the most valuable part, which is the accountability and keeping people accountable.
I actually have an initiation process for this. I don’t know of any other membership site or company or any program that does this but, the people pay a nice fee every month and every quarter to be in this and in the first month, I have them submit a huge goal that they want to achieve, maybe something they have put off for years that they haven’t done.
And, in that month, they give 30 days to complete that goal, whatever it is that scares them the most. And, if they do not complete it, they get kicked out of the Academy, removed forever and can never come back in. And, it’s amazing what people create when that top of the pressure is on the line when they don’t want to miss out on the community. I just kind of came up with it. I was like, I don’t really care about the money. I really care about people getting results. It’s been on real what people have created from that so, I’m excited about that.
I’ve got a couple of books that generates sales every single day. I’ve got consulting, I do advising. I’ve got equity and get paid monthly from some different startups who have me on as a marketing adviser, sponsorships from my podcasts. I get sponsored by a couple of companies as an athlete for national team…
So, I try to tap into multiple streams of income whenever I can.
YARO: You’re a bit of a jack-of-all-trades and crossing industries as well. It’s funny when you said about the initiation process. I was thinking frat house, something like that.
YARO: That’s a really great idea on accountability and that really ties into your whole concept of greatness and motivating people because clearly, I think there’s a strong personal development aspect and shooting to the stars with everything you do which, I want to go back in time but, there’s one thing I want to know before we do that.
The positioning you have with the School of Greatness, I know that’s just your strongest passion presently, when you were looking to I guess begin the podcast and then, enter this whole world of teaching and coaching and having this personal brand around that concept, it’s a little bit fuzzy in a sense it’s very motivational. But, it’s not like, “I’ll teach you blogging, I’ll teach you pay-per-click advertising, I have this system for following to make money, and I’m the best at it.”
So, when you were thinking positioning statements to enter to what is now a very crowded space and you obviously, from your past knew that you entered as a LinkedIn specialist, that was your doorway to Internet Marketing as an expert, with the new way, how did you… Was it a… Just this, let’s see if it works, this is what I care about the most so, I want to go out there with it but, it’s so untangible. There’s very touchy feel but, there’s no like, “I’ll teach you how to make ten grand a month using this special technique,” kind of thing. It has to…
YARO: So, explain that.
LEWIS: Yes, good question. LinkedIn was kind of my bread and butter and it’s real… I really got in at the right time when there was another guy kind of talking about it when I was starting out but, he was talking about the career side of things and I was talking about how to build your business with it and I really kind of ran with it and put a lot of my energy into it and it kind of blew up.
And then, there were many people that followed but, I just got bored of talking about it. I’m super grateful for learning it all and being in a Social Media space and speaking and doing all that stuff but, I just realized that if I had one day to live, do I want to talk about LinkedIn?
YARO: [Laughs] Yes.
LEWIS: And, do I want to talk about email conversion rates? No. It’s just, I started thinking about how to start making a lot of money and I went from sleeping on my sister’s couch and being completely broke, three credit cards and debt, losing my dream of playing professional football through an injury and just kind of like depressed to making enough money to get my own apartment to then, making a lot of money, saving up, moving to New York city, doing everything I wanted to do eventually and then, I was like, but this isn’t… If this was my last day on earth, will I want to do a webinar on LinkedIn? Or, do I want to talk about the stuff that really matters to me and that really inspires me and that I believe will inspire other people to do what they want in their life?
So, when I transitioned out of the company with myself and Sean, passed it over to him, I was trying to figure out what was my next move, whatever I want to be creating, I’m not scrap for money or anything but, what do I want to do to leave a legacy and to leave a mark? How do I want to serve the world?
I realized through the last five or six years that I’ve connect with so many inspiring people. A lot of people have supported me along the way, you being one of them, that I learned from so many different people like yourself that I consider kind of just mentors from afar or coaches from afar that don’t even know that I just pick up on stuff.
So, I said, “I want to do this podcast and really tap into what matters the most for people.” If people listen to this podcast once a week or whenever they listen to it, it gives them something that they couldn’t put their hands on or they weren’t sure how to achieve something before but, it gives them that one little thing, whatever it is, whoever the person I’m interviewing to then support them in achieving their dreams, for me, it’s like it’s all I really cared about.
From there, I said, I’m just going to do this thing for a couple of years. I knew podcasting was growing. I’d seen what Pat Flynn was doing and John Lee Dumas and all these people and I was like it’s going to get big. In the next year and a half, two years, this thing is going to get big. I just hit the one-year mark about a week ago and I didn’t know it would be this big as it is now. I can only project where it’s heading with what I have created from it so far.
So, for me, I said, you know what? So many people were just emailing me and saying, “You’ve got to give more episodes. You got to get us more. This is amazing. The people you’re interviewing, the questions you’re asking are just different than anyone else is asking.”
And so, I said, “You know what? There’s a group of entrepreneurs that listen to the show and who are on my email list that want deeper access, that want a deeper community, that want something to take in the next level.”
They want to bridge the gap between building a business and having an amazing lifestyle, and personal development, and mindset and they want to have it all together to take them to the next level. I guess, everything I’m doing my whole life has come up to this point and I’m mixing and matching all the things that I love and putting an end to the things I’m doing now.
YARO: And then, it’s safe to say that that very strong personal brand and concept was easy to, well not easy but, it translated to a viable business because you built this following. So, it’s essentially, let’s see if I can go out there with this message. Do people like it? Do people following you up want to replicate it and be part of it, and then, you’ve been slowly building out, kind of a coaching mentoring business behind that.
LEWIS: Yes, you know it’s been five years since I have been doing stuff online and I have built a nice audience of people that like the content I have created and I have given a lot of free information. I know you do a lot of free content constantly through your podcasts, through your articles, through your blog and everything. I think there were time people really are committed to you if you do it the right way. I’m just very blessed and grateful to have people that enjoy what I like to write about and speak about and believe in me and get results from the stuff that I share with them.
YARO: I think there are many now who post the challenge for the idea of 1000 free fans or even more nowadays or having a tribe like what Seth Godin talks about where it’s almost like you don’t have to have a positioning strategy beyond your personal brand and the core message that’s associated with it. It doesn’t have to apply to a technique anymore or a business model or strategy or anything like that. It’s just this concept that people latch on to whether it’s the Four-Hour Workweek or the School of Greatness. It’s just something that people want to be a part of
LEWIS: Right. Right. I don’t remember how the name came to me but, a friend of mine have actually mentioned something that maybe think of it or whatever but, I was just always like I want to achieve greatness in everything I do.
You said, I’m kind of like a jack of all trades and I was a decathlete in college as well which is basically being a master or being great at everything but, not a master of anything in track and field. That’s kind of how I lived my life. It’s like, I just really liked to do everything really well and I have multiple things going on at the same time and doing them all extremely well.
YARO: How do you do that, Lewis?
LEWIS: [Laughs] You know, I’m actually writing a book about that right now because I think it’s like a skill, that’s a muscle that you get to develop in order to be able to do that. And, I did that with many sports. And then, after college, I did a bit of salsa dancing with learning the guitar, with learning a bit of business without going to business school or knowing how to sell at all, went public speaking… There’s a lot of skills that I picked up and a lot of it is really… It simply comes down to like desire and obsession.
So, each thing, I was just like, I really want this like I desired it so much. I was so afraid of public speaking and I was just like, I want to be able to speak in front of thousands and not shaking sweat like I do right now in front of five people back in the day.
And so, there’s this desire that I wanted so bad and I didn’t want to be afraid anymore and then, there was just complete emersion. So, with speaking, I joined Host Masters and every week, I went to the meetings the like weekly trainings for learning how to be a public speaker and I was practicing everyday, writing scripts. I was working with my speaking coach/mentor three days a week, going over my next presentation and I was just fully immersed in learning how to become a public speaker.
Same thing with salsa dancing. I went out five days a week to the clubs or to group lessons for three months to learn how to dance when I could barely walk. I gathered up all music. I only downloaded salsa music so, I could listen to it all day long in my car and then, every night when I get home from the clubs, I would watch two hours of YouTube tutorials showing you breakdowns of the moves for salsa dancing and I practised by myself in the mirror because I was too embarrassed to dance with anyone else and make them look bad.
So, it was again this full immersion and obsession of wanting to learn and then in about three months, I was able to go to any salsa club all over the world and dance with any salsa dancer I’ve ever wanted to dance with, any type of level, and then, I could hang with them.
Then, same thing with guitar. When I wanted to learn guitar, it was three or four hours a day obsession. It was working with another guitar player to show me how to play one song at a time then learning chords, downloading stuff from guitarchords.com, just really being immersed in each thing that I wanted to learn and not giving up until I learned it.
YARO: There is a strong passion behind every activity you went after there, Lewis.
LEWIS: Yes, it’s not just like a casual thing for me. It’s not I want to learn something. It’s like, “Let’s go all in and let’s learn this as fast as possible and add that tool to my tool belt so that, I can apply it in every other area in my life.”
YARO: You don’t do these things at the same time. Are they concurrent or subsequential? I can imagine you dancing and guitar teaching with maybe for four hours.
YARO: You have to study all these things.
LEWIS: I think it’s a couple of things a year. But then, somethings like playoffs, when I wanted to learn handball. I never played before and I gave myself the goal that in one year, I was going to make the USA National Team. I was going to be one of the top sixteen players in the United States for an Olympic Sports in less than a year.
I said, the only way to do this is to play with the best and get coached by the best. So, I moved from Columbus, Ohio to New York City and trained with the National Championship team of all former European Professional Handball players who lived in New York City.
I trained with them. I watched game film. I went out with them and learned like their moves and everything. I moved to a city to learn a sport and then, in nine months made the USA National Team and went and played internationally in Argentina against Mexico and a bunch of other countries.
YARO: Amazing. There’s an aspect of, I don’t want to say there’s any people but, there’s a Tim Ferriss vibe coming here although Tim sort of hacks away. It sounds like you just throw yourself into the deep end and live and breathe it for a while.
But, we’ve gone so off track. We’re kind of doing a highlight reel of all these things you’ve done, Lewis. But, there is a journey I do want to cover. Maybe we can connect the dots with all these things you’re talking about.
YARO: I’m assuming when you were born and then, you turned into this big guy who love football, you were thinking football career is the rest of my life, at least for the first half of it while I’m a young man. Is that true?
LEWIS: That was the dream, man. I was ready to be a pro athlete. In highschool, I wanted to be a professional basketball player but, I stopped growing so, when I got to college, I realized that was my best bet was being a professional football player.
Then, at 20 whatever it was, three, when I got injured and there’s kind of like I had this offer you want to have and the dream was over, I was screwed, man! I was just like, “What am I doing next?”
I had no backup plan. I didn’t study in my entire childhood in school because all I wanted to do was play sports. So, what do I do next?
YARO: You snapped your wrist, was it by the way?
LEWIS: Yes, I broke my wrist diving into a wall, playing a football game and I was in a cast for six months. And, I didn’t have any money. I was sleeping in my sister’s couch for a year and a half recovering. I never knew how to make money. I didn’t like to have a job in highschool or college because I was training in the all seasons.
So, I was kind of like, “I am screwed.” I have no clue how I’m going to survive and I did not want to get a job. I don’t think I could have ever had a job because I mostly got a taste of having my own schedule just like playing for a living. It was like I can never go back to something not that.
So, luckily and gratefully, I’m super blessed that my sister brought me in for as long as she did so, I can kind of recover and I just became obsessed with learning about how people were making money online. All I could do was lay around and I had my laptop in my lap all day. I was connecting with people on LinkedIn and kind of like calling them up and ask them questions about their success and how they got there.
Then, I was just learning about, blogging was kind of coming around 2008, and so, I was reading about people who were blogging. I remember reading about Chris Brogan and Darren Rowse and then, I remember reading your blog and thinking like, “Holy crap! These guys are making like $20,000 or $30,000 or $40,000 a month just writing content about what they are learning or what they know.”
And, I said, “Wow, I think I could do this with LinkedIn because I was spending all day on LinkedIn as well. I’d like to start teaching people about this because this was a real need,” especially with the economy in the US at that time was going down and people were trying to figure out how to build their own business and get jobs.
I really just mimicked what other people were doing and write a lot and listen to a lot of audios and watched videos and just said, “Okay, if they can do this, I can do this,” and took action. That was it.
YARO: Did you follow the sort of typical model of I’ll give away some free information, build email list and then, offer my first paid product, that sort of thing?
LEWIS: I was pretty clueless of like how to do… I didn’t know how to code or I didn’t even know how to set up my WordPress page. I didn’t know anything. So, what I was doing originally was I built this pretty sizable audience on LinkedIn and created some of these business professional groups on LinkedIn so, I had this audience and I decided to throw some events, live events.
It was the first thing I ever did to make money was hosting LinkedIn networking events where I was getting 300 to 500 people paying anywhere from $5 to $20 to get in and just do like three to four hours of networking at a restaurant / bar in cities across the country. I was making like three to four thousand dollars in cash when I was doing this. I was like, I am rich. I am making this cash. This is more money than I have ever made.
But, it was after twenty of these events and one year, I started to get burnt out from marketing these things, traveling, to studying them up, and dealing with the venues, it just wasn’t worth it to me anymore.
That’s when I read a book about LinkedIn and started selling this book at the last couple of events and people were like, “Man, this is great information. I want to know more.”
That’s when I met Joel Comm and he said, “Hey, I want to get you on a webinar and talk about LinkedIn because no one is talking about it,” and this is like the social media bootcamp thing that I’m doing.
So, I did that. I didn’t know what I was doing. I have never been on a webinar before. I didn’t know how to create a sales page. I had a buddy who like put them together for me in the last minute and I sold at the end of this webinar, this live training because I didn’t even have a product so, I just sold like a live three-hour LinkedIn Advance marketing training or something for $150 and I made $6300 in that webinar in that first hour and I was freaking out. I was like screaming, running around the house. I was freaking out. I never made that much money in my life and I was like, “This is where it’s at.” I said, “Webinars, and selling at the end of the webinars, I may become a master at this because I could do this everyday for the rest of my life.”
I pretty much did that for the next three and a half years. I’ve done about 700 webinars and I was just selling… And I became a master. I devoured everything I could to learn about webinar marketing and sales and presentations and how to sell without sounding sale-sy and just really connecting with an audience online and everything.
I’ve immersed myself in learning about webinars and that’s where everything led for the next few years, with creating products to sell in these webinars and then, launching other individuals and creating products for them, and marketing for them so, it’s been a fun journey.
YARO: Only 700 webinars? That sounds about the same work of writing articles I’ve done over the same period. So yes, there’s a lot to do to be honest about that.
LEWIS: Yes, I put in the work in the hours, that’s for sure.
YARO: Yes, you did. Okay so, that’s three years of your life. I’m assuming income was growing. You moved out of your sister’s house at some point…
YARO: I know you obviously partnered with Sean at some point. I don’t know ever since you sold that business whether you can talk too much about it or not but, is there… I know you guys had a unique model. That will be something I’d like to mentioned if you can talk about it because I think, because only so far, you took Linked In and then, you decided we need to branch out to other things, is that right?
LEWIS: Yes, I started launching other products from other content creators like James Wedmore for YouTube. We were like let’s find the expert and then, we’ll launch them. It will be our product, we’ll give them a commission. They create a content. We do all the marketing and everything. \
So, we started doing that with a couple of individuals, like you said, Amy Porterfield and yes, everything was growing, It was going amazing. We did like a couple of million a year in sales, each year and it just kept growing. I was doing a lot of the webinar. I was doing the webinars, presenting and Shawn was doing more the back end stuff. We had a great little thing going.
And, it got to a point where I was like, okay, I moved in to my own apartment. I paid off all my credit card debts, my student loans, everything was paid off, and I still had this burning desire to be an athlete. I kind of take in I guess three or four years off now since I have been injured in 2007 and I was like, “No, I really want to go to the Olympics and I really want to be a competitor at the highest level still even though I can’t play football anymore.”
That’s when I saw a team handball in the Olympics in 2008 for the first time, and I was just like, if I’m not making enough money, I’m going to move to New York City and learn a new sport.
So, the time came when I was just like, I made enough money, I’ve got it saved, and I want to go and give this a shot because I knew if I didn’t try and go after it with a full heart and full energy that I’d always regret it. And, I wasn’t getting younger so, I was like I got to get to this now and even for the first year and a half when I was in New York, we were still building the business and everything was going great. It just started to get… I just started to lose interest. I really want to talk about other things again, LinkedIn. I just could not talk about how to build a LinkedIn group anymore. I was just so over it and bored with it that I wanted to… I was just not passionate about it anymore so, I started to phase out of that.
YARO: I would like to talk more about the business stuff.
YARO: Maybe, let’s switch the story because I think if we close the loop and then, we can dive back in because I know, my audience is very much at the… we haven’t got that too many involved in business yet. How do we get there, Lewis? But, let’s open that loop now and we’ll close it once you finish your story.
So, you decided to become a handball player. How old were you then? Why isn’t your broken wrist isn’t stopping you from playing handball?
LEWIS: Well, it’s a good question. I was 27 when I moved to New York City and now, I’m thirty, almost 31 in March and so, my wrist, and I’m right handed, I broke my right wrist, sort of the bone in there from my hip they fused in my wrist, and I’ve got about maybe sixty percent range of motion left. It’s kind of like stuck, kind of doesn’t go all the way back. Maybe it’s 70% now. I do a lot of physical therapy on it.
So, I could go play football right now if I wanted to. It was just, it got to the point where it was really painful to catch and to block. There’s a lot of blocking in football as a receiver and to put my hands out in front of someone and push. I still can’t do a push up today because it hurts my wrist. I have to go on my knuckles. So, it was just like do I wanted to be in pain every play like I could do it and it would be nabbing? But, at that time, it was tough to make the NFL if you get injured and try to come back when there’s young guys who are like fresh and freak athletes every year. So, I was just kind of like, this is going to be an awful lot of battle.
So, handball, it’s easier. I can still throw really hard. It was just I don’t know the flexibility as much. So, I had to kind of bend my arm back a little differently and throw a little differently but, other than that, it’s not painful.
YARO: And, it’s not as much of a contact sport as football, right?
LEWIS: It’s contact but, you hit in a different way. So, instead of like pushing your hands out to block someone, you literally take your arm like a lacrosse stick and you slam it across someone else’s arm. So, it’s more like, I use it as a weapon than kind of like a blocking thing.
YARO: So friendly.
LEWIS: Yes, exactly. So, it’s a different motion and it doesn’t hurt. It hasn’t yet.
YARO: It’s funny whenever I hear about handball, I grew up playing handball in school here but, that’s where you draw a chalk line across pavements and then, you get a tennis ball out and you hit it back and forth that it [unclear]… I never knew what handball was until the Olympics would keep popping around and they’d say this handball, the Olympics. I’m like, “Cool! There’s a handball at the Olympics?” And then, I’d see the sport and go, “This is some kind of weird cross between lacrosse and indoor football, and netball,” and I just, what’s going on here?
LEWIS: Exactly. You try explaining it in the United States and no one knows it and they always ask me is that…? But, New York… I’d have to always explain it, so…
YARO: And, your ambition to that was, or is still is to get to the Olympics, right?
LEWIS: That’s correct. It’s going to be a challenge to be having qualified in over twenty something years I think since, I guess since 1996 was the last time they went because we had automatic qualifier because every host country gets automatically qualified.
So, the goal is to play as long as I can and stay in the United States national team for as long as I can to compete internationally with the country and then, every four years, give ourselves another chance.
YARO: And, you got selected for a team in Spain. Was that expected?
LEWIS: Yes, it was interesting. When I moved to New York to learn the sport, I started telling people, I was like, “I really want to go and play professionally in Spain,” because they were like the world champions and they always have, “I want to learn Spanish. I want to be able to go to Spain. I want to play handball there to learn from some of the best players…” I just thought it would be like a win-win-win.
And, about six months ago, one of the players in the New York team had a connection with a coach, who was a coach of a team, a top league in Spain. They invited me to come over and train for training camp so, I was there for a couple of weeks and really, these guys are unbelievable. They’re next level. So, I learned a lot from them and got a lot better in a short amount of time just because you have to play at the people’s level.
Then, they offered me to stay on the team and play for the whole season. Now, probably I would just have been like a practice player and maybe gotten it at the end of games when they’re out by ten or something and it would have been a great experience but, it was just like, “Do I want to go live here for the next seven months and only play handball. That’s pretty much my life,” but, I had a number of other things that I was doing in Los Angeles and I wanted to keep growing my business, writing my book, speaking gigs that I had commitments already with and some other TV show opportunities that worked me on so, I was just trying to weigh my options and see what to do.
But, I may go back and play for like two to four weeks at a time but, it may not make sense to go for a full year.
YARO: Okay so, I’m assuming then now, you’re just playing for the US team and you’re just doing everything to do with the School of Greatness business. Is that where we’re at presently?
LEWIS: Yes. Mostly just USA team. So, there’s a residency program where they train in Alabama at a University called Auburn and a lot of the team is down there living full time, training and practicing every single day so, to get a start going down there probably every few weeks to train for a week or two at a time and just kind of stay in the rotation with the team and practice, and just kind of stay tight of mind and awareness with the coaches as well.
YARO: Again, it’s been a huge list of things of yo do but, you’re speaking, you’re doing a podcast, you got this School of Greatness coaching program that you’re running so, you’re pretty much done less little combination of activities going. Before we–
LEWIS: Yes, I’m not bored.
YARO: No [laughs]. I think that pretty much closes the loop on your story obviously, I could tie it into every little piece that I think I could sort of… explanation.
YARO: You’re obviously teaching a business as well. So, this is a very relevant question for how do you answer this today? You’ve got someone coming into your world whether it’s by joining your coaching program or something like that and they may not be making much money from their business or maybe not making any money. They don’t have a business idea yet. They’re a brand new person.
How do you help people nowadays with keeping you knocking with say go start a LinkedIn profile and build up your audience that way and you’re not specializing in the sense that let’s do Facebook marketing, let’s do blogging, let’s do podcasting although you’re already podcasting, do you have a formula for how to get to a six-figure, seven-figure business that you now teach people? Or, what exactly do you teach?
LEWIS: Yes, it’s very easy. What I teach is, I think very simple. People tend to get a little overwhelmed. It seems like there’s too much information. I need to simplify everything and just go with the basics, figure out what works and then, take action and then, repeat it over and over.
So, what I teach right now through my Academy, through I’ve got a couple of clients that I work with and they all make six or seven figures within months after doing this.
A lot of them usually have something already going so, if you’re just a brand new beginner, then it’s going to take some time to build an audience. It’s just plain and simple, unless you get the money to buy leads and to buy ads and build up your list that way.
But, what I teach is discovering first what it is you love the most. That’s the best adequately to talk about and then, it may sound little cheesy like discover what you love like discover your passion because we hear people say, “Just do what you love, do what you’re passionate about,” but, it’s really true because I ran LinkedIn. I did the LinkedIn thing for a while. I was like, yes, I can make all these money but, I got burnt out because I wasn’t really in love with it.
So, you can make money around anything, affiliate marketing and just doing these different things that make money but, I feel like at some point, you really get burned out.
Maybe I’m wrong but, that’s just my feelings and what I’ve experienced for myself and many other people that have done this.
YARO: I can concur. I have the same kind of situation. After starting a blog in 2005 launching a coaching program in 2007, doing well from 2007, 2008, and 2009. When I got back from traveling the world in 2008, and I had a bunch of new business opportunities presented to me but in that same area, I was tired of the same thing I only talked about and grew a profitable blog and do those things so much so, I looked to doing other things although it’s funny because I kind of come back full circle. I’m excited to do it again but, mainly because it’s changed so much from where I used to do it so, it’s like learning a whole new bunch of skills myself as well as passing it on to people.
But yes, burnt out happens to everyone. I think that’s probably one of the biggest problems for entrepreneurs. I keep hearing from everyone because people almost like rise to the top like this amazing star and then, slowly, they’ll disappear…
LEWIS: They vanish.
YARO: Yes, they’re burnt out. They move on to start up and change their business model, something happens and it’s something to look out for. But anyway, where the beginning is, we’ve all been beginners, so continue…
LEWIS: So, is this for beginners or is this for…?
YARO: Yes. Let’s focus on where you specialize.
LEWIS: Okay, yes. So again, what I like to specialize in is first discovery of what you love. There’s a lot of different people in my academy that there’s an acupuncturist. There’s someone like who does vegan foods. There are athletes, there are coaches, there are lots of different people.
So, it doesn’t matter what it is you love but, figure out what you love. It can be travel, it could be friends, I love, cats, whatever it is, figure out what you love. There’s a way to make money around it. And, I know you know this Yaro but, there’s a lot of way to make lots of money around anything.
YARO: What’s the cat business that you propose, Lewis just to clarify?
LEWIS: Let’s just say someone likes cats…
YARO: I like cats.
LEWIS: Yes, okay, let’s say you’re in love with your cat. You can create a boutique cat design store where you’re promoting clothes for cats or promoting the top food for cats, or writing about activities to do with your cats, or writing about the coolest toys that are out there and including a brand and a content around how to have an amazing life with your cats and what to buy them and what to, you know, all these different things — how to walk your cat, how to do whatever.
So, there are ways to do that and you’ll be selling through affiliate products that way and things like that.
But, what I like to do is discover what you love the most and what your passion is first. And then, from there, it’s all about selling something before you have it. A lot of this is through information. I like to figure out what your expertise is and then, sell your expertise before you create a product.
I’ve taught this a number of times to entrepreneurs and it’s kind of crazy, the results. One of the acupuncturists who is in my Academy, she did this last week. She has clients. She probably does 30 or 40 hours a week in her studio where she’s putting needles in people and doing acupuncture work and healing people and she loves it.
She makes six figures last year from it but, she was like I want to make more passive income and I don’t want to be in the office all day trading my time for dollars.
So, what we did is I said, “Okay, cool. Why don’t you teach other acupuncturists how you make six figures?” And see if they’re even interested. So, what I asked her to do is I want her to run a webinar and everything’s done from a webinar for me because this is what I know and it’s what I know works really well raking its sales and we’ve done webinars where we’ve converted really well in the past also.
So, she ran a webinar. And, I said, “Here’s what you’re going to do, you’re going to give some free content just teaching people how to get new clients, how to talk to people in the grocery store, at the gym, to bring people in to be your customers or your clients as an acupuncturist, how to run systems better in your office.” All these different things to make six figures. Whatever you did, just talk about it.
And, at the end, you’re going to sell something. For a price point, we decided it was $199. All she had was a Paypal link. She didn’t have a sales page and didn’t have anything. She had a Paypal link and I said, you’re just going to tell them that you’re to deliver something within a week to them and here are the things you’re going to deliver them.
It’s going to be a number of videos that you get to come up with, what is going to be delivered in this videos, the content, that’s going to be step by step how to do all these things plus the documents and the files and all these stuff that you use for this business that’s going to support them and everything else we could have given away through this video training course, this online course.
She did that.
YARO: Can I just stop you for one question?
YARO: How did you get people on to the webinar? I’m assuming you didn’t have a list to begin with.
LEWIS: Great question. So, if you don’t have a list, what I told her to do, I think she had a list of like a hundred people or something. What I told her to do is spend some money on Facebook ads, I think she spent like $200 on some Facebook ads, and she just targeted acupuncturist. I also told her to go into LinkedIn and Facebook groups and find acupuncture groups and then, share this free webinar inside the groups and even reach out to the group owners and ask them if they’d be willing to promote it or if you an jump on with them and they can interview you on there and all these different things.
So, she only had 78 people on so, it wasn’t that many people.
LEWIS: But, for a first webinar, because she did all these things. She did the Facebook ads. She did it all and the groups were just like coming on to her little small list, asking some of her, she reached out to some acupuncture schools and just asked them to share it on their website or whatever and said, “Hey, I am doing this free workshop. Feel free to promote it.”
She had so many people on and she did 34 sales at $199. And, she was freaking out because she made like $7000 or something or whatever that is in that hour when she’d only make about eight to $9000 in a month from working 40 hours a week.
I also told her to do a couple of other things. She, actually it’s going to take long to explain but, she made money off of a couple of other webinar streams as well by setting up an insurance deal.
A lot of acupuncturist, they don’t make money because they don’t know how to bill for insurance. And so, she has the key on how to do it the right way that saves a lot of time and makes the most money. Now, she’s getting a 4% commission on every client from every acupuncture that she signs up in this billing system for life. And so, that’s going to bring her a lot of passive income.
She’s freaking out because she’s generated three years worth of income from one webinar and people are eating up the content and she didn’t have a product. She didn’t have a sales page. She didn’t have anything. She created a webinar and did it on Google hangouts so, did it for free, used LeadPages, I think it’s like $40 or whatever and spent maybe $200 on Facebook ads. That way, she didn’t spend three to six months creating some video training course that she wasn’t sure that anyone would buy.
So, this is the key — to launch a webinar first and sell something after you deliver all your wealth of information for free, sell something to see if people are even interested. Yes, you’ve got to do a little bit of marketing and hustle to get people on, whether that’s your own list, whether that’s parting with other people, whether that’s buying a list, begging people, whatever it is, you got to get people on it and there’s ways to do that. You just got to make it happen.
YARO: I can see I guess the legacy that’s still present in your current teaching is the webinar.
LEWIS: Webinars, man.
Another thing, I’ll give you an example. One of my clients, John Lee Dumas from Entrepreneur On Fire, we connected a while, five months ago before he was really making a lot of money. He hadn’t done a webinar yet.
I think he was making like $40,000 a month this time or like $30,000 or $40,000 a month from sponsorships only and so…
YARO: This is amazing still for a podcast.
LEWIS: Amazing, amazing, amazing. It’s great! But, I was like, dude, you’ve got this wealth of information, podcasting is growing. You’ve got to start teaching this because that’s where the money is going to be made, when you teach what you know.
He developed this product called Podcasters’ Paradise and we worked on the price point, we worked on the positioning and everything together, and I said, you got to run webinars to this thing, that’s what’s going to sell it.
And, the first month, I think he did like a $100,000 in sales doing a couple of webinars. Now, he’s got this thing down where he’s doing over $25,000 a week from doing one webinar. He does Facebook ads and he promotes it to his list. That’s what he does. I think he’s spending a couple thousand dollars a week on Facebook ads. That might be even pretty high. He might be spending like $1000 or $600, I think it’s what he was doing originally.
So, he was making $25,000 a week. This month, he’s about to surpass $200,000 in sales from his sponsorships and his products. It’s all from the webinars is where he generated sales.
That’s what I believe — teaching people what you know the best at solving a problem for people and packaging it in a way that is consumable and easy to follow and if you can make it entertaining as well, that’s great but, really doing a webinar and selling something you don’t have is the best way to get started to see if people even want what you’re going to offer because if they don’t want it then, you don’t want to create a product.
YARO: Hmm, fantastic. Before I wrap up, I’m kind of curious Lewis about this accountability quests you give everyone as they enter your program for 30 days. Is there one or two that you could share that might be a little bit unusual in the sense that they say I’ve got this big dream to hang out with, I don’t know, Michael Jackson well, that’s not going to work, Michael Jordan [laughs], something less maybe not like I just want to make a hundred grand from selling an info product. Where are the dreams at in your group?
LEWIS: Well, this is the initiation, it’s when they join, I tell them that set a big goal that is achievable. Don’t set a goal that is not achievable but, something that is a huge stretch that you know that if your life was over, if you did not make it happen, then you’d be able to make it happen.
So, I want people to be a little scared and be like, okay, I’ve got 30 days to do something that if I dedicated four hours a day, it’s going to get done and it’s going to happen.
One person is like, I want to go and book a TV show and she got like casting for the show. Another person is like, I think it would be amazing to get on TedEx and she got a TedEx speaking gig. Another guy was like, well, one girl, the acupuncturist was like, “I want to do $10,000 from a webinar,” and she did $8000. She’s got another couple of weeks or whatever to make it happen for the other $2000 or so.
It’s like people want to launch membership sites. People want to interview… The one I got, I only interviewed 15 people in the sports business world and he got out 15 interviews done to launch his podcast so, it’s just like different stuff that is again is a big stretch for people. Remember, they have been putting off for a while because they are just like lazy or they don’t have any motivation. But now, they have the accountability to make it happen.
The coolest thing is like people announce what they are going to do in the community, in the group so everyone gets to stay on them. The community regulates each other. They all stood on each other, they all support each other, congratulate each other, and it’s a great … group.
YARO: I’m kind of curious too, and forgive me for digging into everything here but, how do you deliver all these? What’s your platform? I’ve been talking to a few people and I know, you might be in this group. You know the Dynamic Circle? Are you with those guys?
LEWIS: I’m not in that.
YARO: Okay, I’m not either but, I’ve recently been hearing about it. They are from the Tropical MBA guys that started it.
LEWIS: Got you.
YARO: They use a name, a social platform to one of their memberships for that and then, of course, James Schramko, who I think you know, from down in Sydney, he’s got a built in form running his group coaching program so, it seems to range from forms to even like a Facebook group or even, I think back in the day, it was like email newsgroup type things. You subscribe to–
LEWIS: Google groups.
YARO: Google Groups, yes. So, you can just make payments through that. So, what are you doing? What’s your technology set up for delivering paid content nowadays?
LEWIS: Yes, right now, Facebook group is where the forms at and then, I’ve got a wishlist membership site where I host the content.
Everyone is on Facebook all day so, I think it’s easier for them to just log in there and then kind of connect quickly and see what’s happening with notifications. So, that’s where the community is already now. I don’t think there’s a perfect solution out there.
I’ll probably tweaking some things. I’ve got a buddy of mine Brian Moran who’s working on some really cool stuff with membership sites that I’m testing out right now that I may roll over but, I don’t think there’s ever going to be a great solution for any of those stuff. It’s just a matter of what works for you right now, and for the members.
YARO: And, what’s your shopping cart email provider because I know everyone loves that question. How do you take money and how do you send your newsletter and those sort of things?
LEWIS: Yes, again no perfect solution but, what I’m using right now is Stripe. I actually like Stripe. I just started using it. So, using Stripe with a custom cart that brand around built which is not released yet which is really clean that I’m loving. I don’t even know if they have a name for it yet but, I’m using that. It’s kind of like a one shopping cart but, for super dummies. Anyone could use and so, for me, it’s perfect.
YARO: All right. Sometimes, the technical stuff is boring for people to do this all day and then, a lot of newbies who want to know, how do you set that up? How to do that?
So, I’m on Ontraport myself.
LEWIS: Yes, I was on Ontraport and then, it was kind like this is too confusing. For me, I like it simple and not like that I can code and all.
YARO: So funny because I went for the Ontraport because Infusionsoft was too confusing [laughs] and so…
LEWIS: Right, Infusionsoft is confusing too. They’re all too confusing so, I need something that’s like so simple that I can literally log in and just click one button and then, I’m done as opposed to what’s happening here?
For me, it was more about, I don’t want to spend 40 hours learning a system to be able to deliver a message to a community and get some sales. I want to spend an hour max setting it up, the least amount of friction to deliver the most amount of value.
Not that Ontraport or Infusionsoft are bad. I think they are amazing and I hear amazing stuff about them from other friends who use them. Just for me, what works the best is simplicity an that’s what so far is the most simple.
YARO: I should ask you what do you use for the webinars? Do you use a lot of Google Hangouts nowadays?
LEWIS: I kind of took a break from webinars and this was like teaching people about them–
YARO: What about your chiropractor?
LEWIS: She used Google Hangouts. It’s actually live, it’s YouTube Live. You can only have ten people on a Google hangout but, it’s like a Google Hangout platform but, you do it through YouTube’s there’s like a 20 second delay which I’m still trying to figure out if I like that. I’ve done it a couple of times and it’s kind of annoying with this delay. GoToWebinar is still amazing. In my opinion, it’s like kind of a standard and it works. That Johnny Dumas is doing that, the YouTube live thing and he’s making $25,000 a month and that’s…
YARO: He doesn’t have any add-ons? He just uses the YouTube Live?
LEWIS: YouTube Live, there’s a chat called like…. I forgot the name of this chat, it’s like Chat Tango or something, a chat something. There’s a live YouTube video stream and then, a chat box in the right hand side so, people can chat in and leave comments during the presentation but, that’s pretty much it, those two things and there’s like a “Buy Now” button or something.
YARO: So, a lot simpler than a lot of other functions you’ve got with GoTo Webinar, that’s for sure.
LEWIS: Yes. I like Go To Webinar with the polls and with all the stats and everything that it’s got in there. And, it sends out email reminders, that it’s $3.99 a month or something or it’s $2.99 a month. Google Live is free and you just got to buy it $20 for the unlimited chat or whatever it is so, it depends on what you want and how much you want to spend on the stuff.
Again, you could use Infusionsoft and spend $300 a month or you can use Aweber and spend $30 a month, whatever you want to use.
YARO: Exactly. I think there’s a stepping stone you can work through with technology as well and work your way out through things.
YARO: What are we doing now, Lewis Howse? You’ve had some success with everything you’re working on right now. It sounds like your star is rising again and we want to avoid that burnt out thing that happened last time, right? You do sound like you have a good mix. What’s your 30-day goal if I said accountability lose, Howse, what are you doing by the end of February?
LEWIS: Oh man, it’s good. Yes. You know what? It’s been an amazing… 2013 was a great personal growth year for me to really evaluate what I want, letting go of stuff that wasn’t working for me and putting like a clear vision for myself.
What I really realized is that I do well under extreme coaching and having great mentorship and coaching and I feel like I’ve lacked that over the last year or two years. I’ve kind of like, I wouldn’t say like surpassed my mentors and coaches but, I would say it’s I feel like I’m not stretched by some of the ones I used to have.
For me, I understand as an athlete that I crave and I sell when I have a coach that really pushes me, that I respect and value their opinion. So, for me, I’m looking for a coach. I was thinking, who would I want to work with or who would I want to learn from. You mentioned like a guy like Tony Robinson would be someone great to work with or learn from and just grow around their energy. But, I don’t know if I’m willing to spend like a million bucks for it a year.
It’s discovering, maybe multiple people mentors or coaches that I either hire or just work with in a mentorship basis. Also, my personal goal is my next book which I’m writing about kind of all the things we talk about here, how to achieve greatness in anything — business, sports, life, relationships, and kind of my process. So, the book I’ve finished outlining, something my agent so, really moving that forward and getting to a point where that’s being sold in the next couple of months to a publisher.
YARO: That should be up by the time you’re listening to this podcast so, we should probably direct everyone to find out more about the Lewis Howse show, the School of Greatness. Where do you want to send people to?
LEWIS: Yes. Just go to lewishowse.com and it’s got my podcast there which is School of Greatness. You can find it on iTunes or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Yes, everything is at lewishowse.com and on social media.
YARO: Check out his design, too. Lewis is, I would definitely call it traditional blog design. I know it’s a modern version of a personal brand website and how to put it really.
LEWIS: What are your thoughts on it? I get emails every week from people, last year who said that uses it as a case study for how to build their website. But, I would love to know what your thought is as an expert blogger.
YARO: Yes, I mean you saw I posted a question on Facebook asking yourself, and Pat Flynn, and Derek Halpern regarding design. I’ve been looking at blog designs and I’m not trying to get too caught up on these thing because it’s almost like, it’s a bit like the art part of blogging. It’s the part where you get to play around with how you present your image, but you kind of ge caught up with it and doesn’t always impact the bottom line as much as it probably should if you’re going to spend that much time on it.
I don’t know. I don’t think there’s an answer that’s right in every situation. Derek’s blog, Social Triggers is so simple and I do expect it converts for a [58:04] opt in better than anything else but, it doesn’t necessarily do all the things well. You’re not going to find his podcast easily. You’re not going to find videos easily.
YARO: And then, you’ll maybe not get a sense of a feel for what kind of person he is besides just reading his writing where your site, certainly, you’re larger than life and all over the place on that thing. That’s not going to suit anyone either.
LEWIS: Yes, it might turn other people off.
YARO: Yes, well, it won’t turn people off because I think your personality matches the image you’re trying to present and that’s what you want to do. But, if I am this, let’s say, not quite perfect physical specimen, sitting at home, an introvert, I don’t want to plaster my face all over my blog. I don’t want to be the face behind my business as much then, obviously, that’s not the design that’s going to work as well. So, it’s a very personal decision to make, I think with this sort of thing.
I don’t know. I like to look at metrics first especially if you’re just struggling to make money and in some ways, you probably made the decision with this blog because you had a somewhat open-ended goal with the School of Greatness. You were seeing where it was going to take you. And, by focusing on you, you got to go, let’s open this door and see who comes in the building where other people like, “I got to sell this product and this product. Let’s just get people into the newsletter and let it fit.”
YARO: So, different goals.
But yes, thanks for the question, Lewis. Pat’s as well. I think there’s something cool stuff happening, design but, you got to think about where people are coming from. I mean, I get so frustrated with trying to change things too because you got to have a kickass designer to do a lot of the stuff. Who does your design work?
LEWIS: I’ve got Digital Telepathy which is this amazing design company in San Diego, a little pricey but, for me, I believe those who have great designs are going to win, long-term and I think Derek’s site is amazing, SocialTriggers.com’s got great content, this and that but, he’ also re-designing it lately. He’s going to come out with something soon because he really wants to build his authority up as well and kind of like have this clean design and just like… It doesn’t have to be too much but, still simple but, just like effective in a different way. So, I think those that are designed well are going to win long-term.
YARO: Yes, I think it’s certainly becoming more a part of your image.
See the funny thing is, I remember this, this is a conversation I had four years ago when design was becoming more important with generally everything online. But then, you had the Dan Kennedy School Direct Response Marketing. This guy still haven’t changed. It’s ugly header but, copywriting. That’s very persuasive and they run seven, eight, nine figure business as behind some what you would call “ugly designed sites.”
LEWIS: Yes, I think they’re targeting the demographic too and maybe doesn’t care about design as much but, maybe I’m wrong.
YARO: Yes, I mean there’s so many people on the Internet like that. The best thing about it is those who are going to love design are going to go hang out with you because you love it, too and then, they only care about results and the design, don’t bother. They think it’s too much work just getting the results just like with Dan. So, it’s a big place, the Internet.
LEWIS: Yes, it is a big place.
YARO: Anyway, Lewis, let’s wrap it up. LewisHowse.com with the link obviously at the blog post that this podcast goes live at. Thank you for mixing up there. I think we got some of your stories, some motivations, as well as some very practical information and looking forward to seeing what you get up to in 2014.
LEWIS: Thanks man, I appreciate you so much and you’re a huge inspiration to myself and the entire online entrepreneurs community out there, so I appreciate everything you do and I acknowledge you for being a leader in this space so early on and know what they are doing.
YARO: Yes, I’m an old man now. I’m getting comments like that. It’s amazing. I didn’t think you’d become an old man when you’re still in your 30s when it comes to my career. The Internet grows fast.
LEWIS: Exactly. [Laughs] I appreciate you, man.
YARO: Thanks, man. I do appreciate that. Thank you to all of our listeners who joined in and listened to the show today.
And, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed the interview with Lewis. It was very inspiring for me just to be a part of it, I have to say. He’s doing some amazing things with his students and his whole philosophy about businesses, one that I’m whole-heartedly in line with and agree with. I’m looking to continue to replicate myself as I hope you are as well.
As a reminder, you can get this podcast on SoundCloud by going to SoundCloud.com/YaroStarak. You can also find it on iTunes by searching for just my name Yaro and subscribing there, and of course, all the links for this show including the subscribe options are available at my blog at entrepreneurs-journey.com and just tick the podcast tab at the top to find all my previous shows and you’ll obviously find Lewis’s there as well or find the link to go with this show.
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Thanks again for listening. My name is Yaro Starak and I’ll catch you online again very, very soon. Bye!