By Yaro Starak
Jaime Tardy has this uncanny ability to get along with everyone. This is an especially helpful skill when you run a podcast about interviewing millionaires – you end up with some very successful friends!
Jaime has just released her new book, The Eventual Millionaire, the same title as her blog and podcast.
To help celebrate the release of her new book Jaime joined me on the EJ Podcast so we can learn about the book, her podcast and blog, and also how she currently makes a living.
Jaime, and her contortionist performer husband (!), found themselves in some pretty big debt due to buying a car, student loans and the usual expenses you accrue in your early twenties.
When they decided to have a child they realised that getting on top of their money issues was critical. They wouldn’t have two job incomes to carry their debt when Jaime stopped working because of the baby.
In this interview you will hear how Jaime cleared her debt, how she started a new coaching business after her baby was born, which led to the creation of her Eventual Millionaire blog and podcast.
During the interview make sure you listen towards the second half where Jaime talks about how she formed a powerful mastermind group. She managed to convince some fairly well known people like Pat Flynn to become part of her group, even though her own reputation wasn’t quite as established by then.
Her advice on how to create powerful masterminds with super-successful people is priceless.
Here’s what we talked about during the interview –
There’s some great advice in here about podcasting, masterminds and running a coaching practice, so don’t skip this one.
Enjoy the interview with Jaime and please if you enjoy this interview and want me to keep doing them, help out by reviewing this podcast on iTunes.
YARO: Hello, this is Yaro Starak and welcome to an Entrepreneur’s Journey podcast. I just spent half an hour talking to my guest. I’m sorry we didn’t record it for you but we decided to actually start the podcast interview and get this going. My good friend Jaime Tardy has joined me on the show, and for some reason whenever I talk to Jaime we just keep talking. So, we really need to interview her, find out all the amazing things she’s doing.
One of the challenges with Jaime that I have is actually introducing her to you because she’s done a few different things. She’s most well known publicly online for the Eventual Millionaire Podcast. She also has a great story which we’re going to cover from in debt to breaking free of the debt, and then becoming a six figure earner.
What I did realize – or at least I was curious about is she also currently makes a living coaching and consulting online as well.
So there’s a few different elements of play.
Jaime, let’s break this down. Thank you for joining me.
JAIME: Thank you so much for having me Yaro. I appreciate it.
YARO: Okay, so did I get that summary right? I’m sure it’s disjointed but…
JAIME: Perfect! Sold! [laughs]
YARO: [laughs] Alright, great! So let’s dive in. Long story short, you make a living from the internet plus you run this popular podcast, The Eventual Millionaire and you used to be in debt and you’re a mom as well. So, let’s go back though before you were mom.
Oh, and I didn’t mention you’re also married to a circus performer, which is one of the parts that I really like.
JAIME: Weird [laughs]
YARO: I’m looking forward to the “how you met the circus performer part” of this story. And I forgot, we have a brand new book out as well called the Eventual Millionaire.
So that’s the most recent things. Let’s go back in time and bring us up to today.
Before you met the circus performer, before you had kids, you were a university student? Am I correct?
JAIME: Well, actually, I knew the circus performer since I was 16. We were together for like, 15 years now. So I guess we’re not going back that far.
YARO: Is he a circus performer back then?
JAIME: Yes, he is a contortionist.
YARO: You have to explain how you met. How does one fall in love with a circus performer, Jaime? [laughs]
JAIME: No, it’s funny. I met him at a concert when I was 16 years old and he was 17. And yes, we’ve been together ever since we were high school sweethearts. He lived, probably an hour away from me so it’s a little tough at first. But he’s a contortionist and has a show called Audio Body where he does techno comedy and it’s kind of a thing. You have to check it out to see.
YARO: Awesome. So, you guys met, and then you were together ever since. So I guess you’ve been growing together at the same time. Now, normally with high school sweethearts is that issue with, when university or college kicks in, you go to different places but maybe with the contortionist that’s not an issue?
What happens next?
JAIME: The cool thing is he can, sort of, live anywhere. So he actually moved out to school with me.
I bought my first house when I was 19. And so we had a house and two cars, and two dogs.
YARO: How did you do that?
JAIME: Houses in upstate New York, I went to RIT, was really cheap, like 70 grand. So it’s actually cheaper than my rent. So it was, I think, $600-$700 a month.
YARO: What’s wrong with that area?
JAIME: It’s not a very good area. [laughs]
It was a very cute little cape, two bedroom, like super cute little house, but it’s kind of silly, for that cheap, for sure.
It was also kind of setup my whole debt thing, right, because when I was 19 I had everything that my parents had. And so, it just seemed like, “Oh great, I have two cars and a house and some dogs”. And it felt like I was a grown up already at 19 which is when I was still in school, it’s a little weird.
YARO: That’s amazing. This is all pre GFC, probably, it was a pre dot com boom as well, like 2000? Are we going further back or…?
JAIME: I graduated high school in 2000. So, yes, this is 2000-2004.
YARO: Wow, that’s a lot of debt to take on at 19 though.
JAIME: Yes. I mean, it gets worst though. So I went from there, right off buying a house and of course, had to buy another house whenever I went because I had two humongous dogs that no place would take. And so, we ended up I had two houses, actually at the same time because I could not sell the other one anyway.
Long story, but I ended up finding a really amazing job right out of college. I went to school for information technology, so I was a big computer geek until I found an awesome job. But then, we just keep getting deeper in debt.
We had a $250,000 house at one point once we sold the two houses. We took that however much those costs buying a bigger and nicer house. And so, we just found ourselves like stuck with a ton of debt.
Don’t get me wrong, my husband loved what he did and he always did. But I hated this job where I had to travel around the country and fix people’s computers.
I worked for a video on demand company where I made people like more TV, which I thought was not very fulfilling.
YARO: Wow, okay, with your husband, did he need to travel with his performing as well?
JAIME: He traveled quite a bit too. Yes.
YARO: That must have been dynamic period of your life though.
JAIME: It was crazy. I would leave Monday, come home Friday and sometimes he would leave on Friday and not come home until Monday. We didn’t even see each other all that much. It wasn’t a very fun time. I kept going, wait a minute, is this what’s success is like?
I was only 23 or 24 and I made six figures, right, just about $100,000. But I was like, this sucks. Really bad. This is not what I wanted.
YARO: So what did you do?
JAIME: I quit. And my husband had always told me to quit and I was like “No, you don’t understand, my husband is a performer.” [laughs]
YARO: Yes, I’m also curious, contortionist, no offence.
JAIME: That’s exactly what I always said. Don’t get me wrong. He’s done way better now than where we were back then but it was very sporadic at that time. And so, I’m like, “Yes, I’m going to quit my six figure job and my husband is a juggler/contortionist.” [laughs]
It’s kind of silly but I tried finding blogs that had any similar stories to me and I just can’t find. Nobody has a similar story like that. But it was really funny. We took 16 months, worked our butts off. Paid off over $70,000 in debt and sold pretty much everything we owned. So that way, we could get rid of the debt.
So if I did quit, he’s income would be able to start to cover all the expenses.
YARO: Right, so you sold both houses?
JAIME: I was going a little crazy. So at the time we had one $250,000 house. We were able to keep that. So we still had my mortgage debt but the $70,000 that we had in debt was a brand new car that we bought two months before – which is dumb. Don’t decide you’re going to cut debt right after you buy a brand new car.
So there is that, there is home equity loan and soon months. I had tons of soon on debts from before. It wasn’t credit card or anything like that. I thought I was smart with money beforehand.
YARO: How do you pay off $70,000 when you’re both on a fixed salary?
JAIME: Thankfully, I made really good money. When I used to travel, I used to get expenses paid for and food and all that fun stuff. The more I traveled, the more I made. I also got an off site bonus. I was like travelling as much as I possibly could because I had a $40 a day bonus.
The big chunk though that took out is that we sold that new car. So it’s two months old and it has less than a thousand miles on it and we ended up selling it. And so that took a big, probably $8000 or $9000 off because we owed almost $20,000 on the car and then we bought a car for a lot less. That took a big chunk. We did a little bit by a little bit.
We own a 36 inch jeep CJ7, because we love off-roading. I still love jeeps but it’s a sad day when we sold that.
We just pretty much sold everything we owned in that way we could get rid of it.
The thing I didn’t mention is that the reason why, like the catalyst for all these was because I wanted to have a baby. We talked about having kids and I’m like, I can’t leave on Monday and come home on Friday. So that just doesn’t work, and I talked to my work and they won’t budge. You have to travel, that sort of what you did.
And so, I was like, “Great, I have to quit.”
The reason why it was 16 months is because I got pregnant. I was like, “Shoot, I got 10 and a half months before our baby comes so I better work on this quickly.” So that is why we were such in a hurry to pay it all off.
YARO: Wow, okay. So, again it’s all the changes from accumulating debt to getting rid of debt, working really hard to do it and buying things and selling things, and then having a baby.
This is some crazy times. You came out of it, well enough. I’m assuming baby was born and the debt was gone. Is that?
YARO: And then you have this base to decide what to do next, right?
JAIME: Yes, that’s exactly what it was. I was able to quit my job when my son was four months old.
I left for a little while from maternity leave; went back for a couple of months and then was able to leave.
Thankfully, we have an emergency fund too, so it wasn’t just quitting with no savings or anything like that. We had six months emergency fund saved up too.
So it was like, I quit, “Oh great, now what do I do?”
I realized very quickly that I couldn’t be a stay at home mom because I do love working. I’m not really cut out for that.
So I tried to figure out what I could do for 20 hours a week. It’s sort of a long story so I’ll go very short.
I ended up finding a mentor locally who was a business coach, and it was really an amazing thing. I was actually a coach. I became, sort of a life personal coach for a while and then that finding him as a mentor in business coaching.
What I ended up doing for about 20 hours a week when my son was first born was driving out and getting clients and doing business coaching.
He taught me everything he knew. I worked with him for about two years doing that side of things, and then had this realization like, “If I’m only working 20 hours a week, I have no leverage whatsoever. “ I can only have a certain number of clients and I’m driving around because I live the middle of nowhere in Maine, number one, and businesses in Maine don’t have a lot of money.
Maine is the 49th work state in the US. So, not really the best place to be for a business coach. It’s sort of a funny story. I ended up telling my mentor, “You know, I’m a geek, I should be doing all this online”, and he’s like, “Well, you know, we can’t really afford to have you doing that and this at the same time and all that stuff”.
I’ve really pretty much worked for myself. I just got a cut of each of my clients working for him, and so I decided to go out on my own. And that’s when I started the Eventual Millionaire.
YARO: How did you position yourself with all of these? Like, being a coaching client at such a young age, you basically were working a job before you became a coach too.
I can see the connection between you got out of debt and doing the life coaching to help other people get out of debt, but the business coaching, that’s a little bit left field.
You hadn’t built this massive business and then sold it, [inaudible] coaching, right?
JAIME: Totally! So when I met him, I had so many mindset issues like, I can’t coach. I didn’t do any of that but I was a project manager beforehand so it’s really good at like, systems. So he took me in like, “Okay great, I’m going to show you how to do this with clients.”
I ended up really good at working with million dollar plus clients on that side of things. It was funny because I remember when I was dealing with that and going like, “You know, I haven’t done the business thing yet. I don’t really know exactly how to do it, and I feel like crappy going “Hey, listen to me.”
He always told me he’s like baseball coaches don’t necessarily play the game as well as the people that they’re teaching.
I’m like, alright, you got a good point. And so I’ve been doing business coaching ever since because I started seeing the impact of what I did for business owners. A lot of it is personal, right?
A business owner is really kind of funny. Now I work with 7-10 million dollar companies and you look at the owner, a lot of the stuff and a lot of the issues with the company have to do with the issue of the owner.
It’s amazing the mindset, and the personal stuff that it requires but yes, it took a while to get all through that because I used to ask that same question all the time. But when you start seeing results with your clients, I was like, “Hey look, I did that myself”.
It was really cool.
YARO: And how did the Eventual Millionaire, the podcast, all these fit together? Did you set that when you started it, right?
JAIME: Yes. I started Eventual Millionaire right after I left with Kirk, who is my mentor and it’s the whole, “Well you should start a blog.” And I just started a blog because I was a geek and figured, “I’d like to figure out how to do this blogging thing and everybody told me to blog for six months before I found my “voice”. And so I blogged for six months and had, I think, 400 subscribers, something like that, it’s kind of sad.
I was like, “Well this is really worth it.” I was using it as a marketing tactics but I was blogging about random. I was blogging about getting out of debt. I was blogging a little bit about business and it wasn’t really what I wanted it to be.
It was funny because I was going to give it up, so I told my mentor, the guy who’s still helping me even though I left his practice. He’s like, “Well, give it up then and send an email to your subscribers and just tell like, “You know what I’m not going to be updating anymore.”
For some reason I couldn’t pull the trigger. Like, in my gut I couldn’t pull the trigger but it was funny because a week after that, CNN contacted me. Then I was on CNN’s website and they asked me to be on their show. So I was on their TV show and then Yahoo picked up the story so I was on Yahoo’s home page.
So it was really crazy. The opportunities that were coming in and the amount of traffic and the things that were really paying attention to me at that point.
And I went, “Maybe there’s something to blogging, because there’s no way just being me can ever land on the home page of Yahoo without something like this.
That’s when I actually took it really seriously. I ended up realizing that I wasn’t really a writer.
Personally, I love talking. Me and you could talk on the phone forever, right.
YARO: So it’s your fault, I get it.
JAIME: It is. It’s my fault, I’m sorry. [laughs] And that’s sort of the piece, right? I’m in a mastermind group. Pat Flynn, I think your audience might know Pat. He might probably been on the show but Pat has been on my mastermind group since I very, very first started Eventual Millionaire.
It was really funny because he had a podcast and another girl named Mary Ann Kate who went to a company called ZirtualNow had a podcast and they are like, “Hey you should podcast. You should interview millionaires.”
I was like, “That’s great, but I don’t know any millionaires at all. How am I going to do that? And it all sort of started with that one idea on that one Mastermind call. And it was really funny. I just started doing it right after that.
YARO: Two questions for you. Write them down so you don’t forget.
YARO: First one is, with this CNN – this is the tipping point, this is like a major tipping point for you right? This is like, you are about to give it up and instead, a massive exposure which means you keep at it and everything since then is pretty much coming from that point.
I know you worked for six months and put a little work into it but at the end of the day it’s the tipping point that kept you there.
Why did CNN come to you?
JAIME: That’s a good question. So what I determined, at least what I think because – let me finish the story and I’ll go back and tell you.
So the next funny thing that happened is, three months after that, I was on Yahoo’s home page again, my face, different picture. A different story but my face was on Yahoo’s home page again.
I think I’ve deduced from both of those times that it was one guest post that I did on site called GetRichSlowly and they had different journalists reading it. So one person was from Kiplinger’s personal finance, which was what landed me on Yahoo’s homepage the second time and I’m just assuming that CNN found it that way too.
I did a couple of guest posts and that was it. But I’m pretty sure I didn’t even come up in the Google searches at that time.
YARO: So it was really just some exposure on other well exposed sites that kicked all this off.
JAIME: Definitely. I mean, I knew, I found out later after meeting the journalist and staff that a lot of different journalists read blogs, and it was really cool, specially the bigger blogs.
YARO: Interesting. There’s a point about doing guest blogging that’s not really mentioned very much is just who reach that might help you in other ways. Usually by getting a link and getting direct traffic, but the connections might be fantastic too.
JAIME: Yes, actually, let me share something for just a second because I ended up doing a whole speech on this on how to get press and what the best ways are.
I found tons of case studies. People getting books through Riley and through all this other stuff from guest posting, and silly things that wouldn’t be that big of a deal. There are a lot of really cool stories like that too. Not just me.
YARO: Geez, I’m hanging out with Matt Cutts recently and I was saying that guest posting is not good for SEO. It’s kind of scary how much of an impact that’s going to have on mindset when it’s still is such a great technique for exposure.
It’s just, maybe not the best for SEO. At least not as much as it used to be.
JAIME: Well, the funny thing is I had a quick call with Neil Patel and asked him specifically what I should be doing on my site and he told me more guest posting. And this is like two or three months ago.
I was like, “Really? More guest posting?”
Everybody kept talking about guest posting, so I mean, take it for what it is.
YARO: I think it’s just the case of don’t do low quality guest posting. That’s what I took away from Matt Cutts. The other question I have, and this is such an important question for you, Jaime. You have always had these masterminds and you keep dropping names, Neil Patel, Mary Ann Kate from Zirtual, I know she used to be Escaping9-5, Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas. You went to school with him but you also worked with him as a coach, which you might mention later on. There’s a lot of really successful people around you but it seems like you connected with them during the very early days for a lot of them as well. And also, you connected with them when you’re clout, in terms of, say “Hey, look at this amazing blog”.
JAIME: You can say it, I was a nobody. No, I was. I was totally a nobody.
YARO: Well, okay, let’s put it that way. How does a nobody convince these people to let them in their mastermind or do a mastermind with them.
JAIME: Well, it’s really funny. I was actually on Pat’s show coming out live probably right after our recording happens. But it’s really funny because I was like, “Pat do you remember how all these happened”. And I started to recall a little bit on his thing.
I made a goal, because again, middle of nowhere in Maine and my town had 2000 people on it. I lived like, seriously, it’s kind of sad. So the funny thing was I made a goal to try and make more real high quality friendships of people that were successful that I really wanted to be like, that really had their stuff together.
When I went online, I started searching, like “Okay, how do I do that?”
I came across mastermind groups from a book, Think and Grow Rich, and I decided that I wanted to start my own.
Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t know Pat or Mary Ann or anybody in this space. I was reading along about it, like, reading about internet business mastery and your site and a whole other stuff, so a little hot tip to you, right?
And so seeing all that stuff when I first came about, I knew that I wouldn’t be able to get anybody that’s super, super huge.
The funny thing is, I ended up just asking Pat cold because I found his blog. And I think he had probably 10,000 subscribers or something. But I asked him once and he said no.
Just so you know Pat Flynn said no to me but when I ended up doing the training Get People to Say Yes, and so my whole goal was to get people who are much higher level than me specially in the online space because that’s where I needed help with.
I worked with two of my friends who had a viral video or quite a few viral videos online called Diet Coke and Mentos experiment. I’m not sure if you’ve ever seen those, it was a long time ago. It was way back then but they had 15 million plus views online.
I used to worked with them doing project manager stuff in between quitting my job and so I leveraged that as much as I could like name drop them.
I’ve worked with them and I knew a lot of stats on video and I knew what they did and all that fun stuff. So I tried to get some Klout. But the other pieces were, as soon as I had some really amazing people, I actually had my very first member – it was really funny, I was looking through your history, my very first member on my mastermind group was David Hooper who you had on the show. And he found me on Steve Pavlina’s website. And so, it’s so silly, right.
YARO: Wait… How were you on Steve Pavlina’s website?
JAIME: I was on forum so I just posted, “Hey, does anyone want to be on my mastermind group?” and David Hooper wrote back. [laughs]
YARO: That is a long time ago for me. And he’s one of the very first podcast teacher that I ever came across.
JAIME: And it’s so hilarious. I don’t know why he ever would respond to me. But what he ended up doing was sending me his book. He has a book called the Rich Switch and has a whole piece about masterminds in it.
And then, he was like, “Actually, you seem pretty cool, maybe I’ll be the first member of your mastermind group”.
So I had him and then I started getting some other cool people and then I ended up going back and asking Pat, “Hey, look these are all the people we’ve got in it.” Look at me now. [Laughs]
But we also had a really good structure, and so Pat said that he really likes that that we had a hard core structure.
This was almost four years ago and so we’ve been meeting every single week ever since.
YARO: That’s impressive. That is an impressive mastermind group like, in terms of how long it’s gone for, who you’ve got involved with. It’s amazing. I think, back to my own past, I never had a formal mastermind group. I’ve always had a casual masterminds where we get into show and talk to. Now Walter has some people I’ve had partnerships before and then, kind of like, what you and I we had a chat before and when I interview someone like Lewis Howes, like you ask for a little bit of feedback at the same time.
There’s a way to get advice from people without structuring complete masterminds but I know a lot love this regular meeting up, accountability, sharing of what’s going on which is what you had with some high quality people which definitely helps.
I’m sure your mindset raised the bar on what you think is possible. I think one of the real benefits from this is you can tap into sources of traffic and exposure that you’ve never had a chance to because you can easily get on Pat’s podcast now which is listened to by millions of people.
That might be more difficult if you’re just another blogger or podcaster out there talking about the same sort of stuff. But you’re in the mastermind, you’re all got these mutual friends so, I think masterminding, you’re example is good, in the sense that you picked some top people who them become really big.
I think anyone listening into this now would benefit from doing something similar. Pick some top people in your industry but not the biggest people in your industry. Rise with them and you can help each other, and more likely that they’ll say yes.
I’m not going to go and get Steve Pavlina if I want to [inaudible 26:40] personal development, teacher, writer.
I’m a nobody because I actually know Steve, but I have no connection with Steve then asking him to be in the mastermind then he’s not likely to say yes. But if I grab a bunch of other personal development bloggers who are just starting out, it’s more likely that they’ll be receptive to what I’m doing. Then of course you can apply your cool tricks with, saying, “I helped this person, I work with this person.” [laughs]
JAIME: You know I name dropped way too much, right? [laughs] But you know, what’s really funny as I was coming up with the book and with everything with the book, it was really insane. The other thing that I failed to mention is that I meet a lot of people in person. I know we were talking about this before, right? So, especially if you live in the [inaudible], you need to meet people. And so, I started going to a lot of conferences so you can actually hang out with people as friends.
It’s great to be able to chat with them over Skype and stuff like that. It’s a very different thing to be actually be able to go have a drink with them and hang out with them and joke around, and all that fun stuff too.
And so, that started building huge amounts of relationships for me. So when I was dealing with the book and writing the list of all – we were sending out over 400 copies of the books to people. It’s insane and I can say that they’re pretty much all my friends which is an amazing experience to be able to say, “Oh yeah, I’m on this blog and I’m doing this, and I’m doing that.” You know what I mean?
I was just on John’s Entrepreneurs on Fire today and I told John, “Come on, you have to have me back on the show. I helped you with this.” [laughs]
So being able to have those relationships that are true relationships, it’s not just like, “Hey, help me out and like I’m only getting to know you as a friend because I want to use your list or something like that.”
Not like that at all. True friendships really makes the key.
YARO: I think it obviously helps with your personality, Jaime, being so approachable and easy to communicate with. But, I think your point, this to me is the most important point, you became socially aware of these people before you met them as well which gave you the intelligence to interact with them on a playing field that made them more receptive to you doing so because you knew their history, you knew what’s interesting to them, you knew other people they knew.
So, you come into their world in a safe way which make it more likely to be friends, where like you said, this easy way is just to sort of say, “How big is your list? Help me promote my product.”
You might want that. But if you’re going to wrap it around the whole friendship and relationship and the social intelligence that goes into making that happen correctly.
I wouldn’t want this to sound like it’s strategic and evil in any way but that is what happens. You need to create the parameters for friendship to happen. And that means you actually have to care about what that person is doing and be interested in them.
JAIME: And you never know who’s going to work out really well or not, right?
I try and find connection points between people, specifically like – I love UFC. I know that’s kind of weird.
I love UFC in the way that goes, if I find anyone that likes UFC like, “Oh, now we’re best friends.”
And so, really finding connection points with whoever it is that you’re going to be meeting. Whether it’s going to be a long term friendship or not. Some things go really long term and that’s awesome and some aren’t, right? Some you don’t, and that’s okay too. But if you’re looking for really high quality amazing people to be friends with, then it usually all shakes out for the good.
YARO: So if you want to get to know Jaime, you need to be into jeeps and UFC.
JAIME: Yes! Thank you very much, and a geek. That’s usually the three things that’s all you need to know. [laughs]
YARO: I’m sure there’s a Venn diagram where all those things overlap very well, Jaime.
JAIME: Definitely, perfect, good. I’m already figured out by everyone. Now I’m going to get a ton of emails, thanks Yaro. [laughs]
YARO: Back to your story Jaime.
So, we reached the part [inaudible] join these masterminds and you’ve started to get these massive exposure for Eventual Millionaire and you’re coaching people as well.
You had the clients that work online, sort of happening then, didn’t you?
JAIME: Yes, I had a lot of my previous clients from before that I started actually getting more clients from. The blog kept growing which is really great, and when I started the podcast, that was sort of an amazing experience too.
I started podcasting four years ago and it’s just like forever ago now in the podcasting world, right.
I remember getting like, 30,000 downloads on my first month and being like, “Oh my gosh, this is amazing.”
That was way better traffic than I have ever expected. And so, that really took a lot of things too, thankfully. So I had a lot of really amazing companies really come to me for coaching, which is one.
At that time, now people come to me for online stuff. But at the time I was brand new to online when I was first there so I wasn’t saying that I was going to get online.
I have people with employees and systems creating more revenue in their business and looking at their finances, all that boring stuff that no business owners like to look at usually.
And now, I’m really doing cool, sexy stuff, like online marketing. [laughs] And all that fun stuff too. It’s a sort of an evolution and actually you said I was going to bring up John, this is actually a good spot.
I remember when John; I’m not sure if you’ve had him on your show. Have you had him on your show before? John Dumas.
YARO: Ahh… No, I haven’t had John Lee Dumas. We should mention who he is. Who’s John?
JAIME: So John Lee Dumas has a show called Entrepreneur on Fire. We went to high school together. He ended up finding my podcast and telling me that he wanted to start a podcast. And he was the first person that ever came to me that was like, “Hey, I want to start a podcast.”
That wasn’t part of my business coaching skill set. I was like, sure, I’ve served a podcast before, it’s pretty popular. I can definitely help you. And so, it’s just sort of insane. Since then, I had so many people coming to me asking me to start podcasting, doing online marketing and stuff like that.
If you want me to help you start a podcast, I will. I warned everyone that I see a podcast as a marketing tactic and not a business. Unless you’re doing sponsorhips directly, and really looking for huge traffic sources, otherwise, I see it as a great marketing tactic for whatever business you have. Long story short.
YARO: Actually, I’d love to break. There’s two things I want to break down with you, Jaime. This is probably the right time to ask you one of them. What you just said about podcasting as a marketing strategy.
How exactly did you get 30,000 downloads in the first month and how have you grown such a big podcast? Let’s give people some technical advice here.
JAIME: That’s a really good question, right?
So, back then, hitting the new and noteworthy list is all that it took.
YARO: But how did you even do that?
JAIME: Well, that was kind of funny, I had researched and knew Pat and Mary Ann, they told me how they did it and how they thought.
You have to sort of roll with iTunes because nobody really told you exactly what to do. So I was told if you have a really good piece of artwork, and they thought like, people hand picked. So I started doing research trying to find out what iTunes sort of strategy.
I didn’t really know and my first few episodes were horrible. Just to tell you the truth. So I don’t know if they’re looking at that much quality. But the funny thing was, I did only interview millionaires.
As soon as it went live, I seriously only had maybe a couple of hundred downloads from own blog, at the very most. And then iTunes picked it up and was getting, like a thousand downloads a day at the very beginning.
At the very beginning, I was planning on doing an episode every other week because I didn’t think that I was going to get very many millionaires. Like I said, I didn’t know any.
I was like, shoot, there’s something to this podcasting thing. So I really started moving out forward.
Now nowadays, so I just another client last week or maybe three weeks ago, started the podcast at the new and noteworthy list and I did a whole blog post on how to hit the new and noteworthy list. So I asked a bunch of my friends who had hit it and actually on the new and noteworthy list at that time when I wrote the article, and I made them give me all their stats.
So how many downloads did you have before you hit the new and noteworthy list? How many reviews did you have? How many subscribers did you have? Give me what you have and then how many did you get after?
It was really interesting. Some of them have had 20 downloads before they hit the new and noteworthy list and this was a couple of months ago. But still, it was really pretty impressive.
It’s getting a little bit harder nowadays because there’s so many new podcast coming out. But the downloads, back when I did it, I was getting over a thousand a day because the way that iTunes was structured.
Now, the average that I’ve been figuring out from people, depending on where you rank in what category, that really depends.
But if you are the business, entrepreneurial kind of category or make money online kind of category, they’re getting between 300-500 downloads a day, which is pretty good especially if have a new site or a new podcast or something like that.
YARO: Is that from being new & noteworthy or is that just being on iTunes.
JAIME: New and noteworthy.
YARO: Okay so get me to new and noteworthy to kickstart it and then you get that continuing.
JAIME: Yes, and not to continue to, I was like, “How do you create more?” Because at that time, I hit 30,000 the first month and then started to go down and I was like, “Oh no, what do I do now?”
And I found the strategies that worked for me and my podcast is a.) going on another shows or other podcasts, because podcast listeners love other podcast listeners. Especially for me to be on Pats show and your show and other popular podcasts now.
I’ve had, I don’t know how many people today be like, “Oh I’m going to listen to your show now because I heard you on Entrepreneur on Fire.”
That’s really great. That’s definitely an easy way to get subscribers. But even just growing your blogs. Some people liked audio content. All my interviews that I do or video, audio and I have the transcript. And so I have everything that you possibly can have to try and hit all those points. So I try and leverage the content as much as I can.
Even if I don’t have everybody listening to the podcast, I have some people watching it, either on YouTube or on iTunes, I have a video podcast, or people reading the transcript.
So it’s sort of, I’m trying to leverage it as much as I can.
YARO: So that sounds like it’s internet marketing. You basically have to get out to get yourself exposure. There’s no magic button where you just release a podcast to get into New and Noteworthy and you’re set.
JAIME: That’s what happened to John. [laughs] It’s really funny.
YARO: Before you say, I just want to throw one thing in, Jaime. Because I’ve been podcasting since 2005, right? So, I’ve literally seen the wave come and David Hooper to bring his name back into it. He was around the first podcasting, the first boom phase. It wasn’t his biggest one that happened recently but there was a boom and then it died off which I think was because of YouTube.
YouTube, it’s video killed the podcasting star [laughs]. And then that sort of took and YouTube’s too good. But then, when you did it four years ago, there was this new boost, maybe three years ago when iTunes came out. iTunes has an app. The smartphone’s hit so everyone’s downloading the smartphones.
I noticed around the time when you first appeared to me with Eventual Millionaire, I know Pat with his podcast, there was David Siteman Garland with Rise to the Top. This is in MySpace. Obviously people talking about entrepreneurship.
All you guys do this podcast. And I was like, “I’ve been podcasting since 2005 and you seem to launch one podcast and you have the same amount of traffic if not 10 times more after doing 10 episodes.” I was like, “Okay, what’s going on here?” What’s the secret sauce that you guys were all doing? Which is why I’m so curious about Pat answering that question. What does it take today? And I think, it’s so funny to watch you guys because I went through growing up on the internet with Darren Rowse, Brian Clark from CopyBlogger, John Chow, Shoemoney, and then the internet marketing guys like Jeff Walker, Mike Filsaime, Rich Schefren, and Eben Pagan.
A lot of us, the parallels with someone ranking through and becoming really well known instead of dropping off and then someone else popping up and then, everyone doing something similar like, “Oh I’ve got the latest technique. I’m the great Facebook marketer. And they become famous for a while but then that technique drops off.
I see the same things happening now. We have the rise of Pat. Now we’re having the rise of John and David Siteman Garland rose but now he’s switching off his podcast, I think. He’s not doing it anymore.
YARO: It’s so funny to watch this happen but I still am curious because the one difference from my early days to today is the internet is much bigger. And everything is bigger. There’s a bigger audience to tap into but there’s a lot more people competing against what you’re trying to do. So, I’m personally trying to answer this question. If you are a new person and you are going, “I’m thinking of starting a podcast, but is this going to be a 6-12 months slow process to actually get a return on it?”
JAIME: That’s a really good question. Yes, well, hit the New and Noteworthy, that’s number one. And whenever I help people to podcast before, I definitely try to let them know.
To me I care about the business side, right. So yes, podcasting is one way that you can definitely get traffic and it’s the same ways that you get traffic in other things, right.
Yes, there’s of course whatever the newest, craziest technique thing is. But I’m sort of, more old school, as old school as I can be even though I didn’t start in 2006 or 2005 but I really like the format.
I’m planning and this is funny, I’m keynoting at a podcasting conference in August. My speech I started doing a bunch of research because I want to know where podcasting is going but not just podcasting because I really think technology is changing a lot specially in the next 20 years. I really think we’re going to see a lot of amazing things coming up.
I want to make sure I’m in front of that trend. And so, that’s something that I really care a lot about. Yes, podcasting is definitely changing.
I just talked to one of the guys over at Soundcloud and asked him what they saw is the future of podcasting. Actually recently and their full thing is about community driven mobile, of course. Everybody thinks mobile is going to be huge, or is huge already, don’t get me wrong.
But moving into that space, I’m like, “What do you see 20 years out?” Well, let’s just talk about 10 years.
YARO: That’s too long. Way too long.
JAIME: I know. And so to me though, it’s great to look at 10 years for sure. But I want to make sure that we’re staying on top of whatever this things are. Yes, the technology is going to come and it’s going. And as long as we’re really adaptable and start moving forward, people will be like, “Oh, this is the cool new thing. Oh this the cool new thing.”
I want to hop in on a trend that’s already going. And one of my good friends, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him. He has a podcast called the Fatburning Man and they have seriously, I think 400,000 a month. They’re competing with Jillian Michael’s Podcast. It’s all about sort of Philio sort of thing. And his podcast is 18 months old. It’s insane how huge he’s really gotten specially in his space and how an amazing of a business.
He’s got a six figure business. He’s doing really well that he built so quickly. But one of the reasons I asked him to is he goes Philio is a really big trend right now. And so being within that trend is really amazing, two people are looking for right now.
And so, sort of having those pieces and to line them all up, that I find really, really cool and interesting too.
YARO: Yes, this trending thing is really an important point, I think. It’s like these stories, 400,000 downloads, that’s incredible.
I noticed that Louis House got 400,000 subscribers on Soundcloud which you just mentioned. And it cannot be on there for longer than a year.
I don’t know how long he’s been on there but I mean, Soundcloud to me has been this music platform for years. But suddenly, it’s now podcasting platform too and everyone is starting to use it and building great followings.
But, let’s not spend too much time. We’re talking about podcasting for ages here. [laughs]
Obviously, that’s an aspect of what you do but like you said, it’s a marketing tool. Now, I’m also curious because you parlay everything you’ve done and into the most important part, you make a living, a six figure living now, coaching. So, you can see the journey you’ve been on to reach this point and you can see you got this marketing tools, with great mastermind connections but at the end of the day, you actually make a living because people say I want to give you money Jaime to help solve a problem.
I’m really curious, how did you come up with pricing for this? How did you convince people to hand over money? How do you prequalify people so that you’re getting good clients? Those are big questions for people who are coaching businesses so I’d love to hear your take on them.
JAIME: Definitely. So at the very beginning, having the mentor is really helpful, because I don’t know how much to charge and he told me that I had to charge $150/hr and I was like, “Really? We’re in Maine. People are going to pay that?” But then people started paying and I was like, “Hey, apparently that works.”
The funny thing is, I mean, I told you before I charged over $600 an hour now. But that’s just because supply and demand, right? So being able to have a blog and thankfully, like you said, have the right type of prospects coming toward you, and then of course I have a whole sales technique and process that I use to which I can go if you want to.
YARO: Yes, please.
JAIME: Okay, good. So the very beginning, I did this kind of wrong and I didn’t understand why it was a screw up. I kept getting prospects that were not a good fit. I couldn’t afford coaching, didn’t really know what they wanted and all that fun stuff.
I spend a long time on the phone talking to them because the process that my mentor taught is old school business. He’s like a, 60 plus year old guy who sold a million dollar business like that, old school kind of mentality. But he knew sales really well. And so that’s what he ended up teaching me.
And so the process for coaching was, you do a free session sort of a sales call, kind of. But you’re really trying to figure what their pain points are. What I usually do is I offer this free session like, “Yeah, I’ll get a free session.”
And I had so many people saying yes to this that would never in a million years buy coaching. And I don’t know how many hours I spent really trying to get that. And now the process that I have is actually an application process.
I’m full of coaching clients right now so I’m not accepting anymore coaching clients right now. But you can go ahead and apply. And so on my coaching page, which is kind of hidden. Some people are like, okay, you don’t really push your coaching or anything like that. Thankfully I really haven’t had to do any of that. Once I got this process setup pretty well.
Number one, it’s not only just from the website. I also have tons of referrals from other previous clients or, like you said because I know everyone, everybody knows I’m a coach and sends me a ton of amazing people too. So this is just the blog and the podcast aspect of it.
I have an application process and I learned this actually from Ryan Lee who is a friend of the guy that was on my podcast.
YARO: Of course he’s a friend. [laughs]
JAIME: Everybody’s my friend. I have a lot of friends. He’ll probably listen to this and like, “She’s not my friend.” [laughs]
YARO: Who is this girl? [laughs]
JAIME: I know. But it is really funny because he’s actually a mentor of mind and gave me his application. And so if you actually go on my blog, you can actually look at what the application is. Specifically since I’m a business coach I’m asking like, what are your goals. I ask how much you make now. How much your goal is to make, like hard core numbers trying to figure stuff out. Because that, technically, that’s what I need I need to know.
If it’s a million dollar business, they could probably afford me or even half a million. But somebody who’s just starting probably can afford me. Not that I don’t have products. I have a membership site and all that other stuff. So there’s really great prospects. They’re just not great for one on one coaching, maybe group coaching or maybe, one of my products or a book, even. Now that I have a book.
YARO: Since you’re saying all these, it’s at EventualMillionaire.com/coaching that’s the form right? You said it’s a complex form, it’s really not. You just have some hard hitting questions like current monthly business income, target monthly business income. And I love the question, why haven’t you hit your target revenue yet? And in bracket, it’s “I’m serious”. So it’s very number driven.
JAIME: Well, exactly. I mean, the thing is, is that people don’t really like saying. Specially if they don’t make a lot. They don’t want to say exactly how much it is. And so some people will leave that blank. And that’s fine. And so, my next process though, it doesn’t even come to me at that point. It goes to my assistant and so my assistant gets this.
I try and read people out, we’ll see how far they go before they actually really want to become a client. So my assistant will send three more questions. Follow up questions. And then after those three questions…
YARO: What are those questions?
JAIME: Oh gosh, I haven’t looked at them in a long time. Okay, I think the first one is, what can a coach help you with? Because I find that really interesting. Where do you want to be in five years? And what my questions are really trying to do is find out if they’re a good candidate for coaching.
The first initial one is like, “Okay, are they a good prospect in general, for my stuff?” And the second one is going, “Okay, do you think we be a good fit?”
Because the thing is, I really only work only 30 hours a week. Now with this book launch, it’s a bit more than that. But I try and work only while the kids are in school and so, my time is really, really valuable.
These free coaching sessions, I don’t do unless I really think I have a 90-95% rate because I only talk to people on these free coaching sessions that I’m pretty sure they’re going to say yes.
So that’s how the process goes, and it has worked really well from now and continues to work really, really well, so I’m excited that I got that one piece really figured out.
YARO: And when do you, You said now you’re like $600 an hour. I’m assuming you have a package you then sell once you have gone through this process?
I’m always curious, like…
JAIME: I’ll give you my whole spiel if we have time, right? So…
YARO: Convince me. I want to be your client, Jaime.
JAIME: So that first call is definitely about you helping them. My mentor always said, don’t spill your candy in the lobby. Like, don’t give advice before they start paying you. And I don’t like that specifically. I like to give.
But the biggest piece in the way my format of my call goes – and I teach this to my clients all the time too, I think it’s hugely valuable. I learned it from a [inaudible] called Sandler Sales? And so, my mentor listened to them, he thought me that it’s sort of a system that they use. And so at the very beginning it’s sort of bonding and rapport. At the beginning of this call, you really want to get to know people and like you, right? You have to be personable and nice and sort of connect.
Find those pieces like I was saying earlier that you can connect to it. “Oh you like, what’s this like?” Really trying to set the tone, okay. And then from there is you ask questions.
I think a lot of people that sell services, and you can use this system for anything pretty much that you’re selling. They’re not just coaching, but I don’t think enough people really ask what people need. The point of going through and asking all these questions is to find their pain points. What are these things that they’re struggling with? What can they not get pass? Why is this an issue? Because everybody’s got pain points and we need to figure out what those are so that way we can solve them.
And then if we tell them, yes we can actually solve that stuff, it’s such an easier sale because they’ll be like, “Hey, you can help me with this pain that I have, why wouldn’t I pay you if the price works?”
So what you’re doing is trying to really home in on what the issues are and of course make sure you can fix them. Don’t be like [51:16] person that’s like, “Oh I can totally help you with that.” But really make sure that you understand what their problems are. Then when you start trying to figure out the cost of those problems. Like for me, in business it’s super easy because I can go, how much time are you wasting? How much revenue are you losing? We can turn this into one of the millionaires that I interviewed, he dubbed, dollarization. And it’s pretty much pulling it all back into numbers.
So you said, “Yes, you charge a lot of money” And I do. I charge a lot of money but when you look at how much I charge versus how much more money I can make you or save you, it’s a fraction. Which is what it’s all about. We really want to create as much value as humanly possible. Otherwise, people will stop paying you.
And so, what you want to do is really show them your value in numbers as best as you can before you tell them their price. So if you go down the like and you’re like, how much are you spending on this? How much are you losing on this? And you start writing it down, people like, I have no idea I was losing that much or could be doing that much or whatever those numbers are. And you are just getting those numbers for them. And then you go, “Okay, well I’m this much money”. And they’re are like comparatively, if you could do this then definitely it’s a no brainer. And that’s what I’m always looking for.
I only want to work with people that really, really want to work with me because specially in the coaching consulting relationship, if you don’t have their buy 100% you’re not going to get the results that you need to get anyway.
So that’s where of the call and how that goes. Does that makes sense?
YARO: It does and it sounds to me that they key ingredient with all of these is sourcing because the process works to connect you two together and see how you can help them and make the whole relationship work and justify the price. But you have to have the right to have the person entering that form at the very start.
Have you found, specially now that you have become so good at this, I know referrals would obviously be the best source of quality people because you got existing clients matching up with other people, is that true or is there like the finder’s random podcast listener who turns out to be a good client?
JAIME: You would be surprise. Of course referrals are best because if I have an amazing client, they usually know other people that would be amazing clients for me too. So that’s definitely the easiest and they talk me up way before they get on the line so definitely that’s probably number one.
The funny thing about podcasting, and this is what I’m telling a whole bunch of people that have podcasts, especially like the people that already had businesses, like Mike Stelzner had an amazing business, why did he start a podcast, right? And it’s really interesting what they say about them too because you can really connect with your listener.
I don’t know how many conferences I have been to and I feel like, mini celebrity where people come up to me and they’re like, “Oh my God I love your show.” And it’s really funny but you can really connect with someone. They can hear you, like you’re in their head, right? So you’d be surprised.
As long as the logistics fit, as long as they can afford it, or they have a business that can afford it, you connect right away because they already know and trust you. They are here, like, I listen to your podcast and I like what you do and I like your personality because I let my personality. This is what I am like normally.
It’s funny I had somebody come up to me at the last conference and you really like this? For good or for bad, this is what I like.
But they get to know you and it’s so much easier because they kind of we [54:46] themselves out.
The people that don’t like me aren’t going to be listening to my podcast. And so the people that do like me, I’m most likely will like back. And ti’s a lot easier to really find those right fits that way.
YARO: Alright, so have we connected the dots of your story? Like, are we up to the present day? Or is there anything missing?
JAIME: Good question. So the book is probably the present day. I’ve interviewed little bit over 130 millionaires now which kind of crazy how much it adds up.
And so, 130 millionaires and actually one of the reasons why I have the book is because an agent found me on my site. I had talked about doing a book for a very long time and I didn’t know exactly if I was going to self publish or not.
I had an agent contact me and I ended up contacting a few others just to figure out who I wanted for an agent. But they really liked that I already have a platform. That I already have a ton of friends that have platforms too. And I have a lot of press. And so to them, that’s a winning situation, where if you’re going to help promote, you already have a platform to promote to, sort of a no brainer.
I eventually decided to go the publishing route. So that was sort of the past. And publishing with Wiley takes a lot longer than publishing on your own. So it’s probably been a past year and a half of like this whole process and what that is. And it takes a lot of time. So that’s sort of gets you all the way up to speed to where we are now.
YARO: Okay, so what is this now? The book has gone into launch mode. Tell us about it.
JAIME: So it’s called, Eventual Millionaire. What a surprise. Actually the website is “TheEventualMillionaire.com” which is kind of funny.
My publisher decided to do that one. We can talk about publishing versus self publishing another day, right? But the funny thing is, the book really talks about my story. So not only paying off the debt but how, really, you have to set yourself up to have your expenses lower.
When you want to whether start an online business or whatever it is, the lower you get your expenses, the faster you can quit your day job. And so to me, that’s really huge. So the first chapter of the book really talks about that. And the rest of it really talks about how millionaires start businesses. And so, do they have fear, do they have mentors?
I’m a big data freak so I surveyed all of them to try and find like what they did, what worked, and what didn’t work and how they specifically started their business and what those steps were to really get feedback and find out if it was a good idea. So moving forward and all that fun stuff.
So it’s accumulation of over 130 interviews, boiled down into step by step process.
YARO: And the address is TheEventualMillionaire.com for the book and EventualMillionaire.com for the podcast and the blog.
JAIME: Nothing like confusing, right? [laughs]
YARO: Well the brand is great. Eventual Millionaire, who can’t remember that? That’s such a great brand. And your coaching page is on that page as well which is exciting. Now I’m curious with the book deal and all that. They came to you with this offer, for people listening, how much of a platform do they look for when they decide to work with you? Do you need to have x number of downloads of a podcast or subscriber on a newsletter or something like that?
JAIME: That’s what I thought originally, but to tell you the truth, I don’t even know that that matters as much. Because my numbers were not even that great. I think it was two and a half years ago that we – gosh that’s a long time ago that we first started this process. And so, my numbers were not even all that good. At least not in my mind. But what I did in my book proposal that we ended up running is the book proposal and then you pitch to publishers which is such a ridiculously long process.
I listed all of my friends that said that they would help me promote and then I added them all those numbers. I’m a big numbers fan right, as you could tell, put everything in numbers. So I put it all in numbers. Now that I work with them for a long time they’re like, “Yeah, we knew you have a ton of people that you could reach without us having to do anything.” So definitely, So it’s not even that yours specifically, but if you have a really good strategy on how you’re going to reach that many people, that’s usually a good way to go.
YARO: So it’s almost like they factored in all the people that you could connect with and expose your book to as well as your existing audience.
JAIME: Definitely. Which is kind of sad, right? But the publishers don’t do a lot in marketing nowadays. Don’t get me wrong. My publisher’s helping me with some PR stuff but in general, you bring the marketing plan. And so, if you bring in the marketing plan, Apparently, they’re half… I don’t know, it depends nowadays.
YARO: Which begs the question, why go to a publisher in a lot of ways?
JAIME: Exactly. Well that’s why I’m back and forth forever on that. And the reason why I actually like to talk in big crowd like what works and what doesn’t work for people around me. And so I seriously ask the millionaires, the bestselling authors, like as many people as I possibly could on going publishing traditionally or not. And the ultimate reason why I went the publisher route is because I really want us to do more speaking and so, if you get a publisher, then you have a lot more speaking gigs. Like when you’re traditionally published, people know that you have to go through that, adds that layer of credibility because not everybody can get published. But I also really wanted to set myself apart because there’s a lot of bloggers out there that have e-books, right? And on Amazon. Everybody nowadays can have things on Amazon. And so I really wanted to set myself apart.
It’s kind of funny when people are kind of like, “Oh you’re published” and what clout that sort of brings with it.
I’ve actually been kind of surprised specially people not in this kind of space, like you mention that you’ve been published with Wiley and they actually heard of the name Wiley, they think you’re like, really, really cool.
YARO: Right. So publishers still have that little bit of credibility attached to their brands that you get to apply to yourself because you work with them.
JAIME: Definitely. Now I do think that’s going to be changing in the future. But, you know, that’s where we are right now.
YARO: It’s just getting weaker and weaker, isn’t it? Like it used to be a huge deal, now it’s a choice and eventually, it’s going to be, like you say, probably not even important anymore.
YARO: Wow, Jaime. We’ve hit an hour. So that’s perfect timing. Anything else you want to throw in before we wrap it up.
JAIME: Yes, actually if everybody goes to theEventualMillionaire.com there’s actually a whole starter kit with worksheets. So if you do want to start a mastermind group, there’s actually templates on what to email people and what I emailed to Pat on how exactly to do that. All those are free if you just go to theEventualMillionaire.com
YARO: Awesome. Okay, so we’ve covered a lot. There’s getting out of debt, there’s podcasting, there’s getting publicity and exposure for a new blog, there’s mastermind groups. And we’ve got publishing a book and pricing and coaching clients. You’ve done a lot in the last few years.
It’s funny how you become a pseudo specialist in all these subjects. But thank you for going through it all on the call, Jaime. There’s a lot there to absorb and I hope everyone goes and checks out your work at eventualmillionaire.com as well. And I hope the book does really good too.
Thanks for joining me.
JAIME: Thank you so much for having me, Yaro. I really appreciate it. This is super fun. And you have to come over the States so I can actually meet you in person, in some way.
YARO: Yes, it will happen.
Alright, thank you Jaime and thank you everyone for listening in to the Entrepreneurs Journey Podcast. If you want to get more episodes like this, you know where to go. It’s entrepreneurs-journey.com or subscribe via iTunes and now on Soundcloud as well.
Thanks for listening. Thank you Jaime. And talk to you all soon again.
About Yaro Starak
Yaro Starak is the author of the Blog Profits Blueprint, a report you can download instantly to learn how to make $10,000 a month, from only blogging 2 hours per day. You can find Yaro on Facebook, Twitter and Google+.
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